Caroline – 00:00

So I was on a cruise I was super excited but I was also like I just want to sleep all I want to do is get on that ship and sleep three days or so and I think these are signals as well um yeah you know more about that I don’t so yeah this is the beginning of feeling of burnout Mm-hmm and you

Avery – 00:24

touched on the most important point is that like we’ve mentioned before on the podcast that burnout is not a stress management issue so much as it’s an energy management issue and that’s why when we’re in burnt out we feel like we just want to sleep.

It’s like we can’t do too much beyond that so that’s totally normal.

Hi, I’m Avery Thatcher, a former ICU nurse, and this is not your standard stress management podcast where we just focus on those band-aid solutions like the benefits of meditation, mindfulness, and self-care.

You already know that you need some kind of recovery strategy to deal with your stressful life.

But what you may not know are all of the sneaky ways that society, our upbringing and our high achieving nature, and so many other factors contribute to our risk of burnout.

That, my friend, is what we talk about here on this podcast because you can’t do something about a situation that you’re not aware of, right?

So if you’re ready to get out of the pattern of burning out, feeling better, only to burn out again, it’s time for us to shed the light on the truth about burnout.

Avery – 01:32

All right, I am very excited to talk to Caroline.

I was a guest on her podcast, but she’s going to tell us about it a bit later, not too long ago.

And I’m just really excited to hear her story because she shared that she actually didn’t realize that she had burnt out until she started listening to some of the episodes here.

So welcome, Caroline.

Tell us a little bit about you and what you’re doing.

Caroline – 01:58

Oh, thank you so much for having me.

I’m so excited to be on your podcast today.

And as you said, I just found out about burnout a little bit more.

And what I realized in the last two or three years was that people around me were talking about burnout and they obviously had to burn out.

And I had, um, And after having lots of work in 2021, I decided I need a time out.

And I have to go, I chose to do a cruise, five weeks.

I was going to a cruise.

Avery – 02:53

That sounds lovely!

Caroline – 02:55

It was lovely, but two things were happening.

First of all, two weeks before the cruise, my mother had an accident and she was in a wheelchair then, in a hospital.

And I was focused on my, I want to go to that cruise.

And then, and then, no, it’s not funny, but, and I was visiting her, of course, and helping her, she’s living alone.

And the cruise was canceled.

The cruise company cancelled the cruise because of COVID.

They cancelled 600 guests for being able to do the cruise at all.

Caroline – 03:40

It was in January 2022. And then I thought, what am I doing now?

Because everyone thinks I’m on that cruise now, having a time out.

It’s all good.

Then I went to visit my mom helping her, of course.

And then I decided I booked a different cruise then for two weeks.

So I was on a cruise.

I was super excited, but I was also like, I just want to sleep.

Caroline – 04:07

All I want to do is get on that ship and sleep three days or so.

And I think these are signals.

As well, yeah, you know more about that, I don’t.

So yeah, this is the beginning of feeling of burnout.

Avery – 04:24

Mm-hmm and you touched on the most important point is that like we’ve mentioned before on the podcast that burnout is not a stress management issue so much as it’s an energy management issue and that’s why when we’re in burnt out we feel like we just want to sleep.

It’s like we can’t do too much beyond that so that’s totally normal.

So what do you think What other factors do you think contributed to your experience of burnout?

I know you identify as a high achiever.

Do you think that played a role?

Caroline – 04:55

Yes, I was a high achiever or I would call it hyper achiever because there’s a difference.

I recently learned it and I never would have called myself as that.

I always I am ambitious and I always achieve my goals and what I set my mind to.

And yeah, and I was, I wanted always to be number one everywhere and succeed.

So I had my own company and I felt this pressure also with the employees coming to my house, because I have to say We constructed a house to live in and my office was in that house.

So every morning when, so I got kind of panic attacks, not really, but I was really scared to go in that office at the end, you know, and I was avoiding, really I was avoiding, I cannot tell you why, but it was like, I cannot go there anymore.

And then it ended up in, I closed the company last year.

Caroline – 06:01

In July, June, I closed it because I didn’t want to do it anymore.

And then until then I thought, Oh, everything is okay.

So I didn’t identify this burnout only after that.

And I thought now the best time of my life begins because I was traveling then four months through the US.

Yeah.

No, it was the best time.

So it was kind of the opposite of growing up, like having a good time traveling, meeting people, having good food, et cetera.

Caroline – 06:36

And when I came back then to Germany, I think this is where everything like, you know, when it’s soaked in, maybe the reality kicks in and you think, Oh, what have I done?

And what am I doing next?

Avery – 06:54

Yeah.

So when you think back to, like, because you mentioned that, like, you know, it’s burnout now, we often talk about how hindsight’s a jerk, and you’re looking back and you’re like, oh, there were the signs.

So what do you think some of those subtler signs were for you that you were heading into burnout that you just didn’t notice yet?

Caroline – 07:16

I didn’t notice that people are mirroring it.

So, and when I mentioned in the beginning, it came into my life, it was in May 20, I think 2021, when one of my employees told me that her husband was suffering from a burnout and he quit his job.

So it was around me.

And then one year later, Um, there was a person coming into our office and I didn’t know why, because it was an employee from another company, but we, so from a, um, how do you call it?

A client, a client.

She, she worked for a client and she came to visit us in our office and she talked for three hours only about her problems.

And when she said one word, she said, I think.

Caroline – 08:08

I have a burnout or I think I’m going to have burnout soon.

And I didn’t realize this, but after when she left and we talked about it, we were three people witnessing this.

We all three thought, oh, it’s already too late because if someone says, I think I’m going to have a burnout, then they are in the middle of the burnout.

So I had to make a decision because I was the like, It was responsibility and I thought I’d talk about it but

Yeah, there was bad stuff happening.

And I think she left the company and she was also afraid of being fired by them.

Yeah.

Caroline – 09:08

And I didn’t notice.

So it was in my field already talking about energy.

It was in my field, but I didn’t realize it.

And I think everything is okay.

And then I closed my company and I thought I solved the problem, but I didn’t know.

Avery – 09:23

Yeah, so tell me a little bit more about that.

So this is where like people think that burnout is like a circle, like you just kind of come back up to the top and everything’s fine.

But we have all of these patterns and habits that continue to like knock us back down into burnout.

So by closing your company, you thought you had solved the problem.

But what other patterns and behaviors did you notice that continued to perpetuate burnout for you?

Caroline – 09:47

So I was on that holidays.

And it didn’t get better.

So it was like, yeah, I took the pattern with me and it was like, I was still there.

My thoughts were running wild and, you know, in the spiral.

Avery – 10:04

Yeah.

So like what kind of thoughts were in there that kept bringing you back to burnout?

Can you think of any in particular?

Caroline – 10:10

Yeah, I think also the question about what happens next?

What is now?

What am I doing now?

I learned a different profession, you can say, like I became a consultant for Bob Proctor three years ago.

So I had this new perspective as well.

I was working with clients, so yeah, something new.

Avery – 10:44

Yes, love it.

So what things did you do that started to help you get out of burnout, besides traveling?

Because I know that was a really good reset for you.

But what other things did you do to help make sure that you don’t end up back in burnout?

Caroline – 11:00

Yeah, I can tell you which is Facing it.

Facing the being honest with yourself.

What is it?

Even if you don’t call it burnout but you feel that something is wrong and you have to face it until you know.

And to care for myself, put myself first.

Doing what I love.

Not forcing myself to do things I don’t love anymore like accounting because I love more coaching or yeah or doing the podcast I told you or you were the guest in my inspired podcast.

Caroline – 11:40

Yeah and this is also maybe it is also the reason I started the podcast because you know when you only when you take the words burn out that there’s a flame going out and then you have you have to be inspired again or like ignited and it’s about the flame or the fire and these were questions I asked

myself last year what inspires me And what are my gifts and talents?

And I thought, I cannot answer it right now.

So why not asking other people?

So I did this and I’m very inspired by doing the interviews now.

Avery – 12:16

Oh, that’s beautiful.

I didn’t know that story behind it, Caroline.

That’s lovely.

So tell us a little bit more about the kind of people you bring on your podcast.

Caroline – 12:27

Oh, this is so it’s like, um, when the podcast came to me in the middle of the night, 3 AM when I was in San Diego coming back from a road trip from Los Angeles to Colorado Springs and back.

Um, then in San Diego, I had a house sit with my first dog.

This was exciting enough.

And then I woke up in the middle of the night and there was one word telling me podcast.

So like it came to me.

And I took inspired action to set it up.

Then all the guests are coming to me, like you, for example.

Caroline – 12:59

So I see faces on Facebook, on LinkedIn, wherever, social media.

And I just ask, would you love to be my podcast guest?

And they are all saying yes.

They are all inspired, you know?

Avery – 13:13

I love that.

And your podcast is so beautiful to listen to.

You bring on so many different perspectives and people, and it’s just such a wonderful place.

I really like it.

Thank you so much!

Caroline – 13:35

Yes, so I’m also a tech nerd when the internet was invented or opened to the public in 1996. I was one of the first, like I’m always first mover.

It can be related to the hyperachiever.

Avery – 13:54

Yes, I heard it.

Caroline – 13:56

Of course.

And so I, um, I tried this new platform, Be Connected, and I became a certified expert.

This is where I record my podcasts as well.

And we can stream there, have groups and live events, and it’s just fun.

You know, it’s a community growing, it’s a startup.

So we are, um, how can I say this, promoting this or advertising, and I’m working there so I can teach people how to use it and make the most of it.

Yes, this is what I’m doing now.

Caroline – 14:26

Then of course, I’m still a consultant for the Bob Proctor coaching programs, and I’m doing the podcast.

And I have a reading group.

I read Think and Grow Rich every morning.

It’s my morning for you.

It’s in the middle of the night.

Yes, at 5.30, Think and Grow Rich.

And this is also very inspiring.

Avery – 14:47

That’s a beautiful habit to have.

I really like that.

So where can people find you on the internet?

Oh, they can find me everywhere.

Caroline – 14:57

Oh, what I love most is TikTok, you know, TikTok is Where it all started three years ago, I discovered my mentors and I decided to go on social media and I think I didn’t tell you the story that I didn’t speak before.

Not in English, not in German, I didn’t speak so not in school.

I don’t know how I studied or how I finished school or Get the marks by writing every time.

So I was not speaking, I discovered that and I also improved my English in the last two years.

Yes, so it’s a miracle that I can speak to you today and I’m so happy.

Avery – 15:43

Yes, absolutely.

So we’re going to link to everything including your TikTok in the show notes.

And I just want to take a moment Caroline to celebrate that you are doing a podcast, not in your native language.

And now that you’ve shared that, it’s even more strength and perseverance that it took to do this.

So I just want to commend you for that.

It takes a lot of courage to do.

So thank you.

Caroline – 16:09

Thank you.

Courage is my second name.

And I recorded 228 episodes now since December, and I committed to 1111 episodes.

You know, this is very exciting.

Avery – 16:23

It is very exciting and I am so excited to watch you on your journey as you get closer and closer to that number because you will get there.

100% you’ll get there.

Caroline – 16:32

Thank you so much.

And I said, then we are doing a celebration party with all the podcast guests, which you are included.

Avery – 16:40

I am there.

I am there.

Definitely.

Well, thank you so much, Caroline.

Is there anything else that you want to say to the person listening right now before I let you go?

Caroline – 16:50

Yes, of course.

Never give up.

Always believe in yourself and there is a way.

Because even if you don’t see it yet and it is there and there are people helping you, you just have to ask or reach out to someone, for example, me or Avery, of course.

Yes, there’s someone helping you, supporting you.

Avery – 17:12

Beautiful way to end the episode.

Thank you so much for that.

Thank you.

Hold please.

I know that these end-of-podcast blurbs are generally really repetitive and only say, make sure you’re subscribed, but this isn’t like that.

Today, I have a little habit challenge for you.

Before you sit down to do your next work block, I encourage you to take five slow deep breaths for five seconds on the inhale and five seconds on the exhale.

Avery – 17:42

Doing this helps us turn off our stress switch which then regains access to our higher level thinking brain which is something that we talk about in the free course that’s included in the productivity partner app which helps you design your pre-work ritual.

And inside that Productivity Partner app, each day there’s a mini habit challenge where I take 60 seconds to explain something like this that you can do in your day to become even more effective and impactful as a high achiever.

You can try it for one week for free by going to thetruthaboutburnout.com.

Give nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Go give it a try!