Speaker_00 – 00:01

 Hi, I’m Avery Thatcher, a former ICU nurse, and this is not your standard stress management podcast where we just focus on those band-aid solutions like the benefits of meditation, mindfulness, and self-care.

 You already know that you need some kind of recovery strategy to deal with your stressful life.

 But what you may not know are all of the sneaky ways that society, our upbringing and our high achieving nature, and so many other factors contribute to our risk of burnout.

 That, my friend, is what we talk about here on this podcast because you can’t do something about a situation that you’re not aware of, right?

 So if you’re ready to get out of the pattern of burning out, feeling better, only to burn out again, it’s time for us to shed the light on the truth about burnout.

 Alright friends, today I have another guest and I’m really excited to talk about burnout with her because I think she has some different perspectives on it, some different experiences and also isn’t sure if she’s a high achiever.

 So welcome Ana, I’m so excited.

Ana – 01:06

 Thank you, Avery, it’s so nice to be on your show.

Avery – 01:09

 Yes, so let’s just start there.

 Tell us Do you identify as a high achiever?

 You marked it down like you said you didn’t know, so tell me a little bit more about that.

Ana – 01:19

 Yeah, you know, I’m not sure because I think that being a high achiever is a double-edged sword.

 I used to think that I was a high achiever because I was doing everything at the same time.

 For a little bit of context, years ago I used to go to college and I was just finishing with my specialty, my background is in architecture.

 And then while finishing my specialty in architecture, I went to photography school at the same time and I used to train karate and teach karate and I used to also compete high.

 And also I managed to have a boyfriend and I was like, oh, I’m such a high achiever, but it’s a double edged sword.

 Because I feel like sometimes we try to do like the extra mile or like it’s there’s nothing wrong with going the extra mile but we try to burn ourselves because there’s some kind of insecurity you know and it’s been very hard for me to get to the point where I I’m not trying to do everything perfect

 and I’m just trying to do good enough And if it’s good enough, and I will, for instance, turn it over to someone to take a look and okay, let me know if it’s good enough because to me, I still need to move it two pixels to the right.

Ana – 02:42

 And if they’re okay, like, all right, that is good enough.

 I just leave it there.

 And if they tell me their feedback, they’re like, all right, so here’s the feedback that I have for you.

 That’s when I’m like, all right, it’s not good enough yet, but it’s close to good enough.

 Let’s get it done.

Avery – 02:57

 Yeah, and you touched on two of the main sabotage types that high achievers generally have, which is either perfectionism, so good on you for figuring out a way to work through that, but then also when you talked about it’s okay to go the extra mile, absolutely, but when you go the extra mile on 19

 different things, you’re now running an extra 19 miles every day, so Overcommitting to those extra miles and those things that you give more of yourself to, that’s so common.

 And when you were listing all of the things and you’re just like, and somewhere in there, I also had a boyfriend.

 That’s totally that feeling, right?

Ana – 03:37

 Yeah.

 It’s like, you know, I remember that when I used to list everything that I did, people were like, oh, overachiever or miss whatever nice Nickname that they could find but I mean I can’t even remember if I was happy or not because I had no time I made no time for me to feel all right how am I feeling

 do I like what I’m doing is this what I want to do And you get to that cycle, you know, of just like working and you have maybe an end goal, but you never get to it because you’re distracted by all those shiny things around that are little details that you need to fix, but they’re not even

 important.

Avery – 04:21

 Yes, absolutely.

 And for you listening, when she said fix, she did that in air quotes.

 So definitely italics on that, that you think you need to fix, but it doesn’t always need to be fixed, does it?

Ana – 04:32

 No, I’m going to tell you another story, but like an experience that I had maybe two weeks ago.

 I’m launching this new business and it’s going to be two weeks ago.

 Very recently.

 And I had a lot in place.

 The difference with this business is that I was not doing it alone.

 I had a team who’s helping me.

 Delegating is very important to not get burned out.

Ana – 04:58

 And I was just not being able to launch because I was worried on, oh, I don’t like this color for my logo.

 So I’m going to change it two pixels to the right, you know?

 And that was not letting me launch and that was not letting me get things done.

 And whenever I was like, all right, the logo is not important, which when I was able to prioritize what will allow me to launch because I want to get this done and what will, it’s nice to have, but it’s not so important right now.

 Everything changed.

Avery – 05:35

 I can imagine.

 Yeah.

 And things like that, like moving the pixels just too over or like changing the color.

 And like you mentioned before, often what drives the high achiever is insecurity.

 A lot of this is that it’s our body trying to protect ourselves.

 So do you know, when you reflect back on it, what was driving your high achiever?

 Where was that insecurity coming from?

Ana – 06:00

 I think that the insecurity was in feeling like the quality of my work or the hours that I put in my work were directly related to my value as a person.

 And it’s taken a lot of internal work to be like, all right, if people like it or people like me or not, that’s their problem.

 I’m okay with this.

 This is good enough.

 Let’s move on.

Avery – 06:29

 Yes!

 So what changed that for you?

 What changed that perspective that you could start to work towards that?

 Was it an experience of burnout?

 Was it something else?

 What changed it from being driven by the fear versus… It was a lot of experiences, honestly.

Ana – 06:46

 What I’m telling you about all that I used to do back in the day, this is maybe 15 years ago and all of the experiences that I’ve been having Throughout the last 15 years and the last I guess two years, well, being a wAnabe high achiever allowed me to grow in ways that I never thought that I would.

 I’m a solo parent.

 So that helped me grow in ways that I never thought and that also had me burned out because I was taking care of my kid, being the provider, being the nurturer, like all of that.

 But also that job that I had, I was building a business for someone and I was all in as if it was my own business and it wasn’t.

 So that brought a lot of burnout and then it bleated on my relationships and on my relationship with my kid.

 So seeing my kid eating dinner by himself and seeing how he is feeling lonely and he was only seven years old, that was one of the events that made me think, okay, what am I doing?

 What am I prioritizing?

Ana – 07:57

 And why do I feel so tired all the time?

 That was one.

 And then another one, I had a lot of, I will say a lot of events coming in on the same week.

 And that I was burned out.

 I realized that I didn’t like where I was living.

 I didn’t like my life.

 And the only thing that kept me going was my kid.

Ana – 08:20

 We had moved to a different city.

 We were lonely.

 We have nobody else there.

 And I was, I reached a break point.

 So I reached out for help and that has allowed me to do a lot of internal work.

 And from that, I started meeting other people who, it’s weird because when you’re in a certain kind of energy, you attract the people that you need.

 So I started to attract the people who were aligned to that energy of healing and I met people who now I work with who are there to tell me, hey, you’re doing too much.

Ana – 08:57

 That is good enough.

 We had that conversation where I was trying to do a lot and it was taking me along and they were like, why is it like you’re working so much and I see you, but it’s taking you a long time.

 What’s taking you so long?

 And I’m like, well, I’m trying to do this.

 And they’re like, just leave it like that.

 It’s good enough.

 I don’t need anything else.

Ana – 09:14

 So that has helped me.

 That has.

 Yeah, in a way, it helped me to get into that mindset of, okay, I go the extra mile, but also if I start feeling like it’s taking so long, I just stop, look at what I’ve seen and send it over for feedback and hope that it’s good enough.

Avery – 09:33

 Yeah, those are some really great strategies, like leaning on other people, asking for help.

 What other things do you think helped you recover some of the energy?

 Because you said you were exhausted.

 So what other things did you do?

Ana – 09:45

 Let me add one more strategy.

Avery – 09:47

 Oh, yes.

Ana – 09:48

 Okay.

 I time myself.

 Like I see the test that I need to get done and I say, okay, I can get this done in 30 minutes or in 45 minutes.

 And I put a timer on it.

 And if the timer’s off, I’m like, all right, let’s just stop and continue with the next task.

 And hope that it’s good enough.

 There’s actually this technique is called the Pomodoro Technique.

Ana – 10:09

 So I use that and it’s been very helpful to help with my productivity.

 And sometimes when you have really long lists, it’s overwhelming prioritizing that list of all right, what will make me money and what will be nice to happen will not make me money.

 So just like, or what is most important for me to get something done.

 So prioritizing a list and having a time-bound goal and being specific on that goal, like I’m going to do this number of tasks for this number of time or for this long and I’m going to be done by, I don’t know, today at 2 p.m. So that is very helpful.

 Can you repeat your question for me?

Avery – 10:45

 Yeah, it’s all good.

 It was a while ago.

 So yeah, what are the things that you do to help you recover some of that energy?

 Therapy.

 Yeah, fair.

 Yeah.

 That’s the big one for sure.

Avery – 11:04

 Yeah.

 The therapy is solid.

Ana – 11:06

 Yeah.

 But tactical, what helped me was taking care of myself.

 Like people say, Oh, taking a bath or eating comfort food yet.

 Like they help, they give you the quick dopamine hit, but actually taking time to be with myself and discover who I am now, because for sure, I’m not the same person that I was 15 years ago, five years ago, even two months ago.

 So actually spending time with myself and realizing, okay, this is what I like and this is what I’m going to do.

 I’m going to block this time for myself and I’m going to do something of interest for me, or I’m going to block this time for myself and this person who’s important to me.

 And we’re going to have a great time.

Ana – 11:50

 I’m blocking in my calendar.

 Yeah, it has been very helpful.

Avery – 11:54

 I love it.

 You come from such a logical approach Ana and I just think that’s so helpful because there’s a lot of people that would not have it so analytical.

 It’s great.

 It works super well when you block it down like that.

 So that’s good.

Ana – 12:07

 Yes, honestly, I have time blocks for everything, even for tucking my kid in bed.

 Or for quality time with my partner, I have it Saturday night.

 This is prime time, so nobody touch it.

 Yeah.

Avery – 12:18

 Nice.

 So first, I just want to thank you for being so vulnerable and sharing some of those things.

 Like when you were describing how it felt for you, watching your son eat dinner by himself, like I felt it.

 And I’m not even a parent and I was just like, oh, so thank you so much for being vulnerable with that and sharing that so openly.

 I’m so grateful.

Ana – 12:38

 Of course, yes.

Avery – 12:39

 Because I know that someone else listening will relate to that and will be able to see that burnout red flag and be able to do something about it.

 So tell us a little bit about what you’re doing now, because you mentioned that you wanted to, after therapy, do things that like work for you and really like light you up.

 And so it’s not just the self-care pieces, but also the job that you do.

 So tell us a little bit about that.

Ana – 13:01

 Well, self-care for me, I have practiced martial arts for 30 years.

 So that’s what I like to do.

 Sometimes I’m not able to practice my martial arts, but I do work out a little bit.

 That helps me feel like I’m going to be a mobile old lady.

 That’s my goal.

Avery – 13:19

 When I was working in a hospital in the emergency room, there was a 94 year old woman that came in with a broken wrist because she broke it while rock climbing.

 Oh, wow.

 And I was just like, life goals right here.

 Yes, exactly.

 That’s what I want.

Ana – 13:35

 Also, like for hobbies, I like to go to improv comedy class.

 Oh, good for you.

 Those are so scary.

 Oh, I really enjoy it.

 And you know, after being all day in front of a computer and just like writing or doing work, it’s really nice to switch that part of my brain to the creative one.

 And sometimes I have a hard time.

 It’s really hard for me to think in English.

Ana – 13:57

 So it’s sometimes a really hard, I have a really hard time to blend in, but since it’s improv and it’s a yes and I can do whatever and it’s always okay.

 So it’s really nice.

 It’s very helpful for the burnout actually too.

 As far as work, you were asking me about what I’m doing.

 Yeah.

 Tell us a little bit about what you’re up to now.

 Well, I just launched a new company where I install AI systems.

Ana – 14:22

 I help businesses install AI systems for their sales and their customer service.

 And these sales systems with AI help them reduce their costs and increase their sales and frees up their time.

 For them to get into higher value activities.

 Yeah.

 So that they can grow their business or they can just go with their seven year old kid and have dinner with them.

Avery – 14:46

 Yes.

 Oh, I love it.

 And like learning about you and hearing even more about you here in this conversation, it totally makes sense that you’d be working with AI systems.

 Like you are just such a beautiful logical brain.

 So yes, it just ties right in.

 I love it.

 I really appreciate that.

Avery – 15:06

 Oh, of course, of course.

 So tell people if they want to learn a little bit more about you or just even write to you about your story and how it connected with them.

 Where would they find you?

 Where do you want to send people?

Ana – 15:17

 Well, they can find me on my socials.

 They will find me on Facebook and Instagram as Anabotprime.

 I’m going to spell it for you as A-N-A-B-O-T prime, P-R-I-M-E. And they can also find me on LinkedIn as Anagunsalesgibbs.

 And they can also go to my website Anabots.ai.

Avery – 15:36

 Beautiful.

 And we’ll link to all of those in the show notes as well.

 Thank you so much, Ana.

 This was such a fun conversation.

 Is there anything which you’d want to say to the person listening right now if they think that they might be heading into burnout?

Ana – 15:48

 Um, yes, if you’re just working and you feel like you’re just going in circles, like in a hamster wheel, just stop, look at what you’ve done.

 Like, I’m sure that you’ve been working so long and maybe you don’t feel like you’ve had any result yet, but if you look at everything that you’ve done right now, I’m sure that there’s a long trail of things that are done now.

 So take a look at what you have and figure out if it’s good enough for you to move on.

 Or show it to someone else and have some feedback.

Avery – 16:19

 Brilliant.

 I love it.

 That summarizes everything so beautifully.

 Thank you so much again, Ana.

 I’m so excited to share this with everyone.

Ana – 16:27

 Thank you so much for having me.

Avery – 16:30

 Hold, please.

 I know that these end of podcast blurbs are generally really repetitive and only say, make sure you’re subscribed.

 But this isn’t like that.

 Today, I have a little habit challenge for you.

 Before you sit down to do your next work block, I encourage you to take five slow deep breaths for five seconds on the inhale and five seconds on the exhale.

 Doing this helps us turn off our stress switch which then regains access to our higher level thinking brain which is something that we talk about in the free course that’s included in the productivity partner app which helps you design your pre-work ritual.

 And inside that productivity partner app, each day there’s a mini habit challenge where I take 60 seconds to explain something like this that you can do in your day to become even more effective and impactful as a high achiever.

Avery – 17:22

 You can try it for one week for free by going to thetruthaboutburnout.com.

 Give nothing to lose and everything to gain.

 Go give it a try.